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Nissan Primera P11 144 Error code P0135

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stonegrey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stonegrey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2007 at 10:45pm
Originally posted by Beerygoodness Beerygoodness wrote:

a long shot but wasn't there a recall on those engines for cam position sensor? might be worth double checking its been done.


that appears to have been already done, i was wondering if it had been done properly, or if the new sensor was ok.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S4BY H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2008 at 4:08pm

Hi guys,

Sorry to resurrect an old topic but the P0135 error on our 1.8 P11 144 is still there.

The car passed it's MoT ok a few weeks ago.  I did have to reset the MIL though as with the MIL on it wouldn't pass it's emissions test.  Soon as i reset the light, all the readings were within range and it passed just fine.

So obviously the car is in limp mode, and it drives a bit sluggish, fuel consumption is also out.

As some of you may remember i've been through what i understand to be working sensors and the problem is still there.  I've just tested the voltage from the harness and i'm getting battery voltage at terminal 3 which says to me that the harness/ECM etc are ok - or am i making a wrong assumption there?

So could it be that i have been through duff sensors, could it be that coincidental?

I've tried to test the resistance of the sensor but i can't work out which settings to use on my multimeter

On the multimeter i switch it to the horseshoe symbol but should i have it on 2000k, 200k, 20k, 2000 or 200?

Also i have 3 terminal sockets on the meter.  A COM (which i expect is just ground) and then a V *horshoe* mA FUSED and then an UNFUSED 10A Max.

Which terminal do i need to use?

Sorry for all the questions, i just want to eliminate the sensor itself as being at fault before i go about replacing it.

Again, just to reiterate, when i reset the light i get perfectly good readings from the OBD2 software and of course it passed it's MoT!!

People have said there is a 10A fuse located somewhere that could be blown, but i can't work out which fuse it is.  Can somebody confirm this for me please?  Also if the fuse was blown theoretically it shouldn't send the battery voltage to terminal 3 should it?

Anyone local to West Yorks who fancies having a quick look at it with me?

Really hoping somebody can help me sort this out.  Car really is troublefree otherwise!

Cheers

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stonegrey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2008 at 7:16pm
for measuring resistance, use the "horseshoe" symbol, it's called Omega or Ohms, start at 200, and if it goes off the scale, then go up a scale, until you get a reading.

as for the terminals, use COM and V(Omega)

10A is used for measuring current, and of no use in this test.

hope that helps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S4BY H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2008 at 12:05am
Hi Stonegrey, that is very helpful of you many thanks.  I will give it another look in the morning.  Hoping that the sensors are just at fault and i've been unlucky.  Can't think what else it could be.
 
Also do you know if the sensor has to be warm before you can get a reading of it's resistance?  It's just that service manual says the readings are at 25 degrees or something...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2008 at 3:16pm
You need to know what the resistance of a good sensor is so you can compare your reading.  The only sensors I've read about (never had a duff one to look at myself) had resistances of about 7 ohms.  All your problems could just be a dodgy connection in the sensor circuit if the ECU is looking for a few ohms as a bad connection would be likely a few ohms in itself and be added to the sensor resistance.  Thinking about it, it can't be a high resistance, say over 300 ohms as there would be very little heating effect with only 12 volts.  The 25 degree C requirement will be for obtaining accurate readings, 10 degrees C (today's temp here) should only make a couple of percent difference to the resistance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S4BY H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2008 at 11:47pm

Right,

Quick update on this.  I managed to check the resistance of the sensor.

With the engine running so the sensor is warm, it was chucking out about 5ohms of resistance value, so according to the service manuals, this is within tolerance range.  Also there is no continuity at all between terminals 1 and 2 or 2 and 3.

I also have a spare sensor, and although this was cold and not in the vehicle, it checks out fine with the multimeter.

The wiring harness is chucking out 14v (Battery voltage) from terminal 3.  Terminal 2 i suspect is ground as there was nothing from that.  Terminal 1 is chucking out about 4 - 5v.  Can anyone confirm if that is normal please?

So all i've really managed to determine is that the wiring is probably ok, the sensors are both fine.

But the problem of error P0135 is still there!!

Where do i go next with this guys?  Does anyone know how/where i can check if the ECM resistor is ok?  Only reason i ask is that the FSM says it's possible to damage the ECM resistor.

Is this an integrated component on the ECM which can not be replaced in isolation? (hope not).  Going back to the question of cam position sensor, this was done by Nissan under warranty but the P0135 was already there when it went in.

My gut feel is that the universal sensor i fitted for a while has done some kind of damage as the error appeared whilst this was in the car.

I haven't removed the rear o2 yet but as the error is specific to Front o2 Bank 1 sensor 1, i didn't see the point.

If someone can tell me whether the rear o2 could cause P0135 then i'll remove that too.

Please help if you can

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S4BY H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2008 at 11:48pm
Originally posted by SteveB SteveB wrote:

You need to know what the resistance of a good sensor is so you can compare your reading.  The only sensors I've read about (never had a duff one to look at myself) had resistances of about 7 ohms.  All your problems could just be a dodgy connection in the sensor circuit if the ECU is looking for a few ohms as a bad connection would be likely a few ohms in itself and be added to the sensor resistance.  Thinking about it, it can't be a high resistance, say over 300 ohms as there would be very little heating effect with only 12 volts.  The 25 degree C requirement will be for obtaining accurate readings, 10 degrees C (today's temp here) should only make a couple of percent difference to the resistance.
 
Hi Steve, sorry posted that last post before reading your reply.
 
SO...a reading of 5ohms could actually be indicative of a bad sensor then?  Do you think it matters if the sensor is hot or cold ?  Would it make a difference of a few ohms??
 
Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S4BY H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2008 at 11:51pm
Wait, i just read the FSM again, the resistance should be between 2.3 and 4.3 ohms at 25 degreesC.
 
When i checked it, the car was just started from cold so the engine was not at optimal temperature and i got 5ohms.  Anyone care to comment on whether that means anything significant?
 
Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2008 at 10:28am
Originally posted by S4BY H S4BY H wrote:

Wait, i just read the FSM again, the resistance should be between 2.3 and 4.3 ohms at 25 degreesC.
 
When i checked it, the car was just started from cold so the engine was not at optimal temperature and i got 5ohms.  Anyone care to comment on whether that means anything significant?
 
Cheers


Too close to call, really.  For a start, 5 ohms on your meter is unlikely to be terribly accurate, an accurate meter would have 4 wire probes not 2 and cost a lot.  Short the meter leads together and see what the reading is, I bet it's 0.2 ohms or similar, this has to be deducted from the 5 ohms to get closer to the real resistance.  Then there's the temperature factor, it's not easy to put a figure on error factors as it depends on the metals used in the heater, so it's best to use the quoted 25 degrees, but as a guess, at 10 degrees (engine not run for several hours, exhaust feels cold) I would expect the resistance to be a few percent lower than the 25 degree figure.  If I read your post right you measured the 5 ohms with the exhaust warm (the resistance rises at warm), that and the meter error probably means that the sensor heater is OK. 

Your wiring checks again mean that they're probably OK but not definitely.  Did you measure the 14v heater voltage with the sensor disconnected?  If the loom has a high resistance you'll still get a 14v reading, but what really matters is what the voltage falls to when the sensor is connected.  Any drop of more than 1 or 2v would be a problem I would guess.  For instance if you read 7v, it would mean that there's the same resistance in the loom as the sensor, so you would definitely get a code then.

Have fun.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S4BY H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2008 at 12:36pm
Hi Steve, yes i checked the voltage with the sensor disconnected.  So i need to check it with the sensor reconnected?
 
What about terminal 1 on the harness, what voltage should that be chucking out if any?
 
Thanks again.
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