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Nissan Primera P10 intermittent throttle problem

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rizla01 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rizla01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 6:13pm
The art of not wasting money here is to reposition the leads a few times (Give them a good tug - but dont TRY to wreck them) and see if you can make the problem worse. If so then you know you have the culprit but its not good practice to replace things willy-nilly. Only if you have GOOD reason to suspect them - or loads of £££. 

In all probability you prob sounds more likely to be the one lead feeding into the distributer - unless you recognise the sound/feel of firing on three cylinders occasionally.
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Mowog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mowog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 7:22pm
No, I have a perversion for old British cars too, so I know exactly what a missing cylinder sounds like! WinkThis is just a weird lack of power or willingness to rev, and as I say seems totally random in when it occurs.

I'll try fiddling with the leads and see if I can force the problem to happen.

Regarding the plugs, I can't imagine how they could cause a fault that was intermittent (just because a spark plug is such a simple thing - it surely either works or it doesn't, right?), but it's less than a tenner for a set of NGK ones so won't break the bank to try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote p11primeragt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 7:46pm
It's intermittent with the bosch plugs.Was in my experience anyways.
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Mowog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mowog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 10:38pm
I've ordered a set of NGK plugs, so fingers crossed. Would be lovely if it turns out to be so simple! Thanks for the advice Thumbs Up
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Mowog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mowog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2018 at 10:54am
Sorry to bump an old thread, but I installed the new plugs and alas it hasn't fixed the issue. Thought it had at first, but that's the nature of an intermittent fault I guess! Also haven't needed the car much over the past few weeks, but drove it yesterday and the fault was there the same as ever. Worth a try though.

I did also try fiddling with the plug leads with the engine running, but they seem absolutely fine and in great condition,TBH.

Does anyone have experience of how a TPS fault manifests itself? The weird, 'dead' feeling of the throttle makes me wonder if it could be the sensor misreporting the position of the throttle in some way, but I've no idea if that would be the way it would feel, nor if it would fail to show as a fault code. I have checked the throttle pot with a multimeter and it seems fine, but that might not mean much. A new TPS is kind of pricey, so I'm slightly reticent to buy one on the off-chance. Any thoughts?

If anyone has any other ideas or advice I would be massively grateful - I'm feeling pretty clueless! And without any fault codes showing it doesn't even seem worth stumping up for a visit to a Nissan garage, as I reckon they would just end up guessing as much as I am.

Thanks in advance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Totenkopf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2018 at 3:32pm
You can keep changing your plugs and leads forever, it won't change a thing. You really need to know how the system works in order to fix it.

The tps sensor is basicly a potentiometer. It's resistance varies when the throttle shaft is turned. What you're looking for are irregularities in it's operating range. Probe the connectors first two pins with a multimeter. If the resistance changes smoothly as you turn the throttle plate, your problem lies elsewhere.

Does this happen at all temperatures or only at certain temperature? The ecu temperature sensor can cause all kinds of problems (too lean when hot etc.)

I read that the engine runs good with WOT. Have you checked for vacuum leaks? This affects most when running at closed loop. Also at the same time, the mixture feedback control is based on the o2 sensor output. Next things I would check are fuel pressure, compression, charging voltage and all engine grounding points.

Begin with these. Study the service manual and soon you'll find your problem. Just don't go buying parts just because someone had good guess what might be wrong.
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p11primeragt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p11primeragt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2018 at 11:22pm
I wasn't guessing about the plugs whoever you are referring too..It's well known that sr's don't like them,so swapping to NKG'S is worthwhile even if it's not fixed the fault.

Never heard of a bad tps on a sr20 either although anything can fail.Not only that he' already checked it.Out of spec TPS and it would be juddering at low RPM when on/off throttle.

As for the knock code,ignore it.It's not related.It's regular comes up on both p10/p11sr.

Try unplugging the lambda sensor next and try it.They can be lazy to switch loop.

The lambda should be switching to open loop at over 3k at idle on open loop on heavy throttle inputs but since you don't have live data you'll wont know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Totenkopf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2018 at 8:12am
I wasn't referring to you. It just seems to be tjw modern way to replace everything without actually knowing what effects certain sensors have during a malfunction.

Either way the original problem was described as hesitation and poor response. Therefore we can narrow down the search to the fuel system and what controls it. Whatever it is, it's makinf the car run extremely lean at closed loop. The lambda sensor output can be also probed with a multimeter, connecring the negative lead to a well grounded spot and the positive lead to the lambda signal. You can use either the 2 volt or 20 volt scale, doesn't really matter. Your car has a titanium type sensor, so the signal wire is the middle one, coloured black. What you want to see is a rapid oscillation of voltage between nearly zero and one volt at more than 5 times durinf ten seconds. The engine has to be running at about 2krpm during the test. If the voltage oscillates as described, your sensor is working like it should and you can move along.

If that turns out fine, check the following:
-Compression
-Vacuum leaks
-Fuel pressure
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mowog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2018 at 9:29am
Thanks guys - really appreciate the advice.

Hopefully it will be dry enough this weekend to check out the lambda sensor as you describe. I'll also double-check the TPS too: I only checked the readings at either end of it's travel before, not the readout in-between.

May I ask a couple of questions? What is WOT? And what does 'at closed loop' mean in this context?

Thanks again!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Totenkopf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2018 at 9:54am
Wot stands for wide open throttle.

As the service manual says:

The mixture ratio feedback system provides the best air-fuel mixture ratio for driveability and emission control. The three way catalyst can then better reduce CO, HC and NOx emissions. This system uses a heated oxygen sensor 1 (front) in the exhaust manifold to monitor if the engine operation is rich or lean. The ECM adjusts the injection pulse width according to the sensor voltage signal. This maintains the mixture ratio within the range of stoichiometric (ideal air-fuel mixture). This stage is referred to as the closed loop control condition.

Open Loop Control

The open loop system condition refers to when the ECM detects any of the following conditions.
-Feedback control stops in order to maintain stabilized fuel combustion.
-Deceleration and acceleration
-High-load, high-speed operation
-Malfunction of heated oxygen sensor 1 (front) or its circuit
-Insufficient activation of heated oxygen sensor 1 (front) at low engine coolant temperature
-High engine coolant temperature
-During warm-up
-Whenstarting the engine

So basicly at open loop the engine uses predetermined timing and fuel maps.
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