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Nissan Primera P12 1.8 Engine Start Problems

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renrut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote renrut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 3:13pm
Well you've proven that the relay works and that when the fuel rail is primed it starts.

As your quote the ECM controls the fuel pump.

Now you could check the relay. I can't remember where it is but relays usually make a tiny 'click' noise when switching. Have your ear near it when someone turns the ign to ON then you should hear it click. Alternatively a current limited 12V source could be used on the relay outside the car to see if it changes.

TBH it sounds like you have a SECU problem and it needs replacing. Do a search on here, I'm sure plenty will show up. I recall seeing somewhere on here on how to fix it but I might have dreamt it. Might have to bite the bullet and have a new one Unhappy

Now enjoying wafty effortless power.
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MattC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2010 at 10:08pm
Hi renrut thanks for the reply.

I checked the relay, seems ok. I am going to try buy a new one though and try that as it seems the relay might be intermittent.

I've taken it on a few drives today. Going great. When it doesnt work, I pull the relay put, give it a little shake, jiggle the wires a little that the relay goes into, then put it back in. switch to on and then I can hear that fuel pump go and it starts great and stays on.

So the SECU. I'm not sure how this would be a problem? Unless that controls the power to the relay causing on/off of the pump, and that is the failure? I don't understand why a tap or the relay or a jiggle of the cables sorts it out. If its not the relay, then the terminal it plugs into?

Any reason why you think the SECU? If I understand the logic behind it then I seem to work on problems having understood the why'd and what makes you rule out other things.

Cheers again all.
Matt.
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renrut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote renrut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2010 at 9:32am
If the relay isn't faulty then the SECU is the bit that drives the relay. If you can get a meter on the input to the relay from the SECU and see what voltage you're getting when it works and when it doesn't work that would tell you if you're getting a signal from the SECU. If you're not its a SECU fault. If you are then its a sticky relay problem.

If thats not practical to test then get a new relay as they're not expensive. You'd have to be damned unlucky to get a faulty one.

If its a wire harness problem then buzz out from the SECU to the relay and also check to ground incase its shorting out.

Its been known for SECU units to go funny but I wouldn't have thought intermittent would be one of them.
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MattC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2010 at 9:57am
If i understand correctly what you mean about getting a meter on the relay terminal side (the relays socket), I have done this, as the service manual guides you to. It gives me 12v ish, the voltage of the battery across terminal 3 and 5. See fuel pump in the manual for what i have done. When ever I test that, it gives me good readings, so I feel the secu is working in that respect. This jiggle the wires option however might mean when the relay is tucked away behind its box (just FYI, its underneath the plastic cover just under bonnet release switch) that the cabling has a bit of a break in it that is ok when jiggled.

Well due to pick up a new relay today. Nissan quoted 30.74. Expensive! Found a second hand for 15 though. Better but will it work? Ha.

What do you mean by buzz out sorry?

I did see how to repair a secu. It's a fix for an interior bulb though. Specifically a bad component on the board. Might be able to trace the bad component though relating to fuel pun relay control.

Cheers.
MC.
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imckay View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote imckay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2010 at 7:20pm
The fuel pump relay is controlled by the ECU.
 
See Service Manual - Engine, Engine Control, Page EC537
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FunkyGibbon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2010 at 9:31pm
Hello all, so this is my first post and first reply all in one, recent cold weather has caused havoc with my Primera, one problem in particular is with the fuel pump not priming, the car run, i stopped to go in a shop, came out and it would not start, towed home, chaged battery, fitted next day, started first time, as the weather has become colder the lat couple of days when the fuel pump is priming, the motor (whiring sound) sounds slow and laboured before the clunk meaning the it's primed, so pump motor might be faulty? Relay as previously mentioned in this thread, i can definatly say no whiring noise no engine start, whiring clunk yes engine will start, it's -4 deg outside tonight, knuckles bruised and scraped from working on the water pump this weekend.
Nuff of that, glad i found this forum and in particular this thread, thanks for your indirect help

Shaun
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FunkyGibbon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 10:48pm
So as an update to anyone else who has had this problem i've fixed it, all the electrics checked out and led to a problem with the pump itself, after removing the pump from the tank and putting power direct to it to find it was dead, grasping the neared hammer i gave it couple of taps and applied power and it worked, i've been running the pump on off for a couple of hours and it's still working, tomorow i'll refit it in the tank and hopefully it will still work, so the answer is if something doesn't work smack it with a hammer
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MattC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2010 at 6:56am
Hi guys, I haven't run without thanks for your help. I've been reading the site daily since my last visit, just haven't been logged in!

It seems that I have identified the problem - just an intermittent relay. AFTER ALL THAT TROUBLE! At least it wasn't more serious though.

It seems to fail when it is cold. What I have had to do (until I buy a new one), is leave the cover for the relay off (next to the accelerator pedal behind the plastic cover), and I have to remove the relay every time I am done with driving. I carry it in my pocket, or take it into the building with me to keep it warm and prevent it from becoming freezing cold. When I come back to the car, pop it in, pump primes and starts up straight away!

This has been confirmed to me yesterday. I forgot to take out the relay, left it sitting in the -1 temperature for about an hour and a half. Came back out and it wouldn't start. Quickly disconnected it, warmed it up in my hands for a few mins, plugged in, and started no problem.

I have thought of the possibility that the wiring to the relay could be bad, and that me 'jiggling' the wires as I attempt to re-insert the relay into it's socket fixes the circuit. I think that chance may be slim.

I did test the relay by connecting the power pins up to the car battery and testing if the electromagnet activated and completed the fuel pump circuit. Yes it did, but that was when the relay was inside and warm. My next test would be to do it in freezing cold temperatures to confirm it is broken when cold.

Then I might buy a new relay. Nissan have quoted £31 inclusive of VAT - so expensive for what it is. I need to get to a breakers yard but none have a P12 at the moment. I'll be waiting.

If anyone has any startup troubles, listen for the pump priming, if it isn't, check your pump fuse. If all in order, check that relay too. Bridge the female sockets the relay goes into (see ESM for which ones provide the power to the relay), switch car to ON, and listen for the pump priming.

There's my small contribution for those struggling with perhaps similar problems, and as a return to all the helpful people here on the forum :)

Cheers again guys!
Matt.
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MattC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2010 at 7:01am
Wow this thread got quite a number of views.

I forgot to ask - does anyone know if I could use an alternative relay? Are they the same in the P11 or P10, or can I use any other relay with the same pins and wiring?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote imckay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2010 at 9:38am
Glad you got the bottom of the problem Matt
 
Accordng to Nissan4U parts catalogue you have a wide choice of Nissans that use the same relay.
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