I have newly acquired a 1800 Primera S 2001 Y reg (hence P12?) and it is an excellent car with just a couple of faults. The engine management light stays on - Garage say the code indicates lean mixture but it passed the MOT emission test fine. (Garage switched the light off but it came back within 24 hrs as it has done in the past). As regards performance it is generally fine (although rather less pull than I would expect from a 1.8) and it takes it's own sweet time to speed up, no sense of power coming at all when you floor the throttle!

 

However the main issue is that it does have a tendency to completely lose power when pulling away after starting up, it would probably cut out if I didn't drop the clutch, but if I then wait a few seconds with the engine running it's fine for the rest of the journey. It can also do something similar when overtaking on the motorway, there's just nothing there when trying to accelerate after it's been doing a constant speed for a while.

 

It's ok and driveable (sort of) although I did nearly go through a mates garage doors when leaving his drive (on a hill) when I lost power and dipped the clutch!

 

The combination of issues (engine mgt light on and loss of power) sounds similar to a number of threads on NPOC. Is this a common Primera problem and is replacing the MAF a sensible way to go? Also I would be very grateful if anyone could clarify whether there is one MAF or two, are we talking about valves or sensors, where are they located, is it a difficult job, do they need a torx and are they expensive or cheap (I've seen £18 and £400 quoted on the forums)!

 

Many thanks for any help anyone can offer!

 

http://www.npoc.co.uk/forum/which-nissan-primera-do-i-own_topic194.html - http://www.npoc.co.uk/forum/which-nissan-primera-do-i-own_topic194.html  

 

I reckon you may have a P11-144

 

Yes you're right I'd worked out from Wikipaedia that it wasn't a "proper" P11 then forgot about the P144 facelift when I was writing the post!!

 

Thanks for the advice

I've now identified the correct model (P11 144), downloaded the Manuals from the NPOC link ( http://www.npoc.co.uk/forum/nissan-primera-factory-service-manuals_topic29493.html - http://www.npoc.co.uk/forum/nissan-primera-factory-service-manuals_topic29493.html )

and read the NPOC "How to" forum on flashing the engine management codes (via the diagnostic plug under the fusebox to the right of the steering wheel.)  http://www.npoc.co.uk/forum/p11144-diagnostic-check-clear-and-codes_topic8946.html - http://www.npoc.co.uk/forum/p11144-diagnostic-check-clear-and-codes_topic8946.html

I've also got the link to a replacement Bosch part from Eurocarparts (£86) if it does turn out to be the MAF

 

 

I'll check that out, it may be worth it in the long term as I'm hoping to keep this car a while.

 

re ebay MAF's - thanks, came to the same conclusion myself!

 

re surcharge - good news

 

re ebay MAF - had come the same conclusion!

The 1.8 sensor fits, all you need to do is take it out of the 1.8 MAF body and fit it into your 2.0 one. put your old sensor back into the 1.8 body and return it to get your surcharge fee back. 

Be carefull not to touch the wire sensors as this will damage them.

It is also possible to clean the sensor again be carefull not to touch the wires and use a carb cleaner, spraying from a distance so as not to damage the wires.

 

My plan is to run some diagnostics directly on the MAF and replace that if necessary. That will hopefully sort a number of these problems out but, if it's not the problem I don't want to waste around £50!

 

Thanks for the thoughts

 

I'm kind of hoping this thread will pull together a lot of the information contained in parts in a number of previous threads into one "big" resource on the subject, especailly as it seems to clearly be an issue with the P11 144 and possibly other Primera models.

 

I found the WIKI entry on MAF's very helpful in understanding what I was dealing with at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_flow_sensor - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_flow_sensor

 

Also the excellent picture of the MAF contained in Primeraracers trouble shooting article at  http://www.npoc.co.uk/forum/primera-maintenance-trouble-shooting_topic3269.html - http://www.npoc.co.uk/forum/primera-maintenance-trouble-shooting_topic3269.html

 

Perhaps we should consider starting a MAF support group!

Also on the 144 maf it may not be the same wire lol

I've got down under the dash and bridged the multiplug contacts (to flash the error codes) and there's nothing flashing nor anything that looks like an LED that could flash?

 

I've found the white multiplug exactly as shown on  http://www.npoc.co.uk/forum/p11144-diagnostic-check-clear-and-codes_topic8946.html - http://www.npoc.co.uk/forum/p11144-diagnostic-check-clear-and-codes_topic8946.html  and have bridged the first and last terminals on the broader based side of the plug (bottom row using the NPOC forum diagram). 

 

But what should flash? Or do I need a code reader?

 

Its done 139,000 miles and has been family owned from being an ex-demo

It normally runs really well and I never hammer it.

there was an occassional stutter at around 2000rpm, like its got a twin choke carb

(ah remember those)

Any whoo, today for no reason it just went flat like it was running out of petrol.

I kept it going by juggling clutch and brake but it was hard work.

It seems to rev better when not in gear if you get my drift.

At traffic light the tick over is very low or even stalls.

 

On returning home I changed:

Plugs, fuel filter, cleaned k&n element (air line), plug leads and checked and cleaned inside of distributor cap and rotor arm.

Still the same.

 

A (garage) mate suggests undooing manifold and restarting in case CAT is blocked.

 

But I remeber reading of similar probs on this sight.

 

Any ideas and please bare in mind I'm new to MAFS egr's etc.

 

Just put 12momnth mot & tax and this is how i'm repaid.

Diagnostic guy came to look at car today (£60)

plugged in his machine said it was the MAF

Took it out (covered in what looked like hair and dirt ???

any way sprayed it with carb cleaner (mine) let it dry off?

replaced it (check 'o' ring mine was squished so turned it around)

did all checks again and its perfect now.

I know it was an easy £60 for the guy but I'm back on the road.

 

so yipee.

 

If you live in S.wales area I have the guys phone number.

he arrived on time was professional and a nice bloke.

 

 

Voltage immediately improved which was encouraging but more importantly the car now drives much better, no loss of power and much improved acceleration. (Hopefully better mpg as well but don't know yet).

Great result....

I have a P11-144 (dec 2001) with similar symptoms. I really like this car, but in the past 6 months it's been bugging me with power loss and MIL codes. Since my new hobby is electronic motor management I prefer to resolve this myself rather than bring big buckses to garages who only use it to replace non-faulty parts.

So this is what the car is doing:

- indeed sometimes stalls when driving away on a cold engine, unless the clutch is depressed

- throws error codes 335 (crankshaft position sensor) and sometimes P300 (random misfire)

- i've seen once a lean mixture code, P171

- loss of power when depressing accelerator fully, but seems to run normally when increasing gas slightly

- it almost feels like it's picking up power as soon as I take back just a little bit of gas

- jittery rev counter especially when idling, and > 4000 rpm

Above symptoms make me believe that there's something wrong with the basic mixture control, which is being corrected via the closed loop (O2 sensor and short term fuel trim), given that the system goes to open loop when warming up and when the accelerator pedal is fully depressed. 

What I've done over the past months:

I've replaced the crankshaft position sensor with no improvement in behavior. The garage says they suspect the MAF. 

I've measured the MAF output at the ECM, which seems to be fine (1.3Volts at idle), however there are spikes (both up and down) of about 1 volt. The signal oscillates, not sure if this is by design or points to a problem. The link below has a screen shot of the signal.

NB this is a MAF with 5 pins, i.e. integrated air intake temp sensor. The air intake temp seems fine, but MAF pin 4 seems quite low (3.8 volts, should be battery voltage). I'll check again tomorrow since Cyber_hound also noticed a voltage drop.   

Since the other possible cause would be a stretched chain, I've connected a scope to check timing of camshaft and crankshaft sensors (trigger set to ignition of first cylinder). There is some jitter in the timing but I cannot judge whether this would indicate a stretched chain. Some screen capture movies can be found here:  http://www.dnd.utwente.nl/~grit/nissan/ - http://www.dnd.utwente.nl/~grit/nissan/  . WARNING: some of the files are HUGE (up to 60 MB). 

Could this be a faulty MAF, or do these symptoms more point to a stretched chain?

Thanks for reading this far - it's a lot of information but hopefully you can help me to diagnose this problem.

Regards, Gerrit

 

I used the manuals (page 1 of this thread) and based on logic and a hunch went straight for the MAF as I thought it unlikely to be the ECM / wiring. The voltage across the mass air flow sensor terminal 5 and ground should be approx 1.0V with Ignition on, engine stopped. (page EC-65 of the manual) With the engine warmed up the same test should show between 1.9 and 2.3V.

 

What should happen is that the amount of air sucked into the engine affects the temperature of the sensor wire inside the MAF and therefore it's resistance and therefore the voltage across the sensor wire. If the voltage is wrong the engine management system will assume the air flow into the engine is different to what it needs hence wrong mixture, poor performance under load (esp acceleration) and poor fuel economy.

 

My MAF reading was 0.9V engine off and only 1.2V when warm so well off what it should be when warm. A new MAF gave me a much better voltage when warm and more importantly an immediately noticable change in performance.

 

I would suggest taking the readings across the MAF terminals which is a different test to the ECM check. The manual suggests a number of actions if the car fails the ECM / wiring loom tests but the MAF test seems pretty specific and diagnostic. If yours passes then the MAF is probably not the problem. If it fails it's worth replacing the MAF. Course you may have more than one problem but one thing at a time!

 

I would repeat the advice I was given and go for the genuine Bosch part from Eurocars (if needed) it's not worth risking replacing one faulty part with another. £50 well spent I reckon.

 

Good Luck

 

Thanks I hadn't spotted that with the Nissan e-manual which I found a bit hard to get started with then very useful once I'd got the hang of it (missed the different page nos for different models though!)

 

I'm delighted with your update though because with the new MAF my MAF sensor test was reading 1.7V instead of the 1.9V the manual stated (I had wondered whether I hadn't warmed the car up enough and in any case was ignoring it as the car seems so much improved).

 

However if you're saying the test readiongs should be 1.7V for the 144 then my readings are spot on, my new MAF "passes" the test and all is well with in my world!

 

Can't comment on your 3V as I didn't do that test but as with all diagnostic flow charts different tests tell you different stories and your 3V (?ECM monitoring) may have more than one possible cause whereas the voltage test across the MAF sensors is (I think) specific to the functioning of just the MAF.

 

Good luck

 

The AA assistance that I had, also found a strange effect with the throttle - opening it slightly made the engine rev v.high, but gradually opening it to full throttle made the engine die to almost nothing ( not to a stall though ).

 

I eventually needed assistance from a Nissan dealership, but even they struggled to diagnose the problem. The system was not showing any fault codes. The car had almost no acceleration and wasn't able to get above 20mph. Experienced Nissan car engineers tried everything they could think of, until only one thing was left - the MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR.

 

This was ordered and fitted ( £90 excl vat for the part ) - she then revved up beautifully and hasn't run so smoothly & powerfully for ages.

 

Thanks for the NPOC's help.

As it is though, glad the 144 is back to spec